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	<title>Comments on: Eastenders and the troubled Muslim</title>
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	<description>Principled, compassionate Islamic perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Rasheed Eldin</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15025</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rasheed Eldin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 13:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks David, I would tend to agree that we won&#039;t get much further on this track, but the thought I&#039;d like to leave you with is that anyone could form a more &quot;inclusive, liberal, tolerant&quot; brand of Islam if they want (and some have indeed tried), but what would be the use? Ultimately we only wish to live in accordance with what God actually wants from us, not what we &lt;em&gt;want&lt;/em&gt; Him to want. So rather than fill people with &lt;em&gt;false&lt;/em&gt; hopes, we try to inform people of the realities of Islam&#039;s teachings, so they can direct their proper hope towards the Almighty, and live this life (however much of a struggle it is - and it is, for every human) in the way that pleases Him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks David, I would tend to agree that we won&#8217;t get much further on this track, but the thought I&#8217;d like to leave you with is that anyone could form a more &#8220;inclusive, liberal, tolerant&#8221; brand of Islam if they want (and some have indeed tried), but what would be the use? Ultimately we only wish to live in accordance with what God actually wants from us, not what we <em>want</em> Him to want. So rather than fill people with <em>false</em> hopes, we try to inform people of the realities of Islam&#8217;s teachings, so they can direct their proper hope towards the Almighty, and live this life (however much of a struggle it is &#8211; and it is, for every human) in the way that pleases Him.</p>
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		<title>By: david gee</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15024</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david gee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 10:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15024</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rasheed, I&#039;ve read through your dialogue with No-Nonsense Sister. I particularly liked your quote that &quot;nobody is sinful for what they feel inside&quot;. The Catholic Church takes a similar view, that gay &quot;leanings&quot; are not a sin but giving in to them is. This of course means that gay men and women have to be Celibate to remain in a state of grace.

Not easy. In fact, impossible for most gays. Which means they have to try harder, pray harder - or drift from the Faith. For Christians there are the more liberal churches, also called &quot;inclusive&quot;. Not an option for gay Muslims, I deduce from your postings.

Our differences are irreconcilable, Rasheed, but thanks for the debate! Salaam.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rasheed, I&#8217;ve read through your dialogue with No-Nonsense Sister. I particularly liked your quote that &#8220;nobody is sinful for what they feel inside&#8221;. The Catholic Church takes a similar view, that gay &#8220;leanings&#8221; are not a sin but giving in to them is. This of course means that gay men and women have to be Celibate to remain in a state of grace.</p>
<p>Not easy. In fact, impossible for most gays. Which means they have to try harder, pray harder &#8211; or drift from the Faith. For Christians there are the more liberal churches, also called &#8220;inclusive&#8221;. Not an option for gay Muslims, I deduce from your postings.</p>
<p>Our differences are irreconcilable, Rasheed, but thanks for the debate! Salaam.</p>
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		<title>By: Rasheed Eldin</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15022</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rasheed Eldin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 19:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15022</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Liberality is a relative matter, and I see no virtue in defining myself by it, rather than simply wishing to adhere faithfully and intellectually to the letter and spirit of God&#039;s revelation.

No mosque should close its doors to any person of faith, regardless of what they feel inside. Indeed, even if they are living the &#039;gay&#039; life, so long as they do not spread discord in public.

We have discussed at length on this site the problems with the &quot;gay Muslim&quot; concept. For example:
http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/26/gay-muslim-gay-muslim/
See also:
http://gaymuslims.org/2009/04/15/is-there-a-place-for-gay-muslims/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberality is a relative matter, and I see no virtue in defining myself by it, rather than simply wishing to adhere faithfully and intellectually to the letter and spirit of God&#8217;s revelation.</p>
<p>No mosque should close its doors to any person of faith, regardless of what they feel inside. Indeed, even if they are living the &#8216;gay&#8217; life, so long as they do not spread discord in public.</p>
<p>We have discussed at length on this site the problems with the &#8220;gay Muslim&#8221; concept. For example:<br />
<a href="http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/26/gay-muslim-gay-muslim/" rel="nofollow">http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/26/gay-muslim-gay-muslim/</a><br />
See also:<br />
<a href="http://gaymuslims.org/2009/04/15/is-there-a-place-for-gay-muslims/" rel="nofollow">http://gaymuslims.org/2009/04/15/is-there-a-place-for-gay-muslims/</a></p>
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		<title>By: david gee</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15021</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david gee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 10:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rasheed, I get the feeling you do not belong to the &#039;liberal&#039; wing of Islamic theology, if there is such a wing. I was raised a Methodist, one of the pioneering sects of liberal Christianity.

It saddens me when churches/mosques/synagogues close their doors to homosexual men and women who still have faith. Over the years the concept of &#039;gay and Christian&#039; has gained widespread acceptance. Can &#039;gay and Muslim&#039; not be tolerated? Open that door, Rasheed!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rasheed, I get the feeling you do not belong to the &#8216;liberal&#8217; wing of Islamic theology, if there is such a wing. I was raised a Methodist, one of the pioneering sects of liberal Christianity.</p>
<p>It saddens me when churches/mosques/synagogues close their doors to homosexual men and women who still have faith. Over the years the concept of &#8216;gay and Christian&#8217; has gained widespread acceptance. Can &#8216;gay and Muslim&#8217; not be tolerated? Open that door, Rasheed!</p>
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		<title>By: Rasheed Eldin</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15020</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rasheed Eldin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 19:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David, the key for me is to consider faith, theology and jurisprudence as the bases, and issues of sexuality just one branch matter among many others. Neither am I like those who derive theology to suit their sexual feelings and sexuality theories, nor am I motivated by some passionate &#039;hatred&#039; of all things gay.

You ask me to judge a particular couple when God is the real Judge, while we can only state the generalities based on the revelation. If they are not Muslims, that is far more relevant to the question than anything else. As for the one who&#039;s still alive, he&#039;s certainly not doomed as he can still repent if he chooses to. Excuse my brevity, but I think the question is somewhat misplaced.

Best wishes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, the key for me is to consider faith, theology and jurisprudence as the bases, and issues of sexuality just one branch matter among many others. Neither am I like those who derive theology to suit their sexual feelings and sexuality theories, nor am I motivated by some passionate &#8216;hatred&#8217; of all things gay.</p>
<p>You ask me to judge a particular couple when God is the real Judge, while we can only state the generalities based on the revelation. If they are not Muslims, that is far more relevant to the question than anything else. As for the one who&#8217;s still alive, he&#8217;s certainly not doomed as he can still repent if he chooses to. Excuse my brevity, but I think the question is somewhat misplaced.</p>
<p>Best wishes.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gee (author of SHAIKH-DOWN)</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15019</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Gee (author of SHAIKH-DOWN)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 09:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15019</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rasheed, you and I clearly come from opposite ends of the spectrum of Faith. I (a little) envy you the solidity of your conviction. I had faith like that once. As a matter of fact, I&#039;ve just started writing a new novel about a man who wrestles with bisexuality and wavering faith (Christian faith in his case). I&#039;ve known many Christians in this position (and also, as mentioned previously, a few Muslims).

Yes, men (and women) have been &quot;cured&quot; of homosexuality, but many more have not and would not want to be. Is there no &#039;liberal&#039; theology in Islam? I know that gays are widely perceived to be promiscuous, and promiscuity (gay and straight) is sinful in almost all religions, but must a monagamous gay couple also be condemned?

I have a 95-year-old neighbour here on the UK south coast who had a loving relationship with his &#039;other half&#039; (as he calls him) for 72 years until his partner died. Do you say they are both doomed to Hell?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rasheed, you and I clearly come from opposite ends of the spectrum of Faith. I (a little) envy you the solidity of your conviction. I had faith like that once. As a matter of fact, I&#8217;ve just started writing a new novel about a man who wrestles with bisexuality and wavering faith (Christian faith in his case). I&#8217;ve known many Christians in this position (and also, as mentioned previously, a few Muslims).</p>
<p>Yes, men (and women) have been &#8220;cured&#8221; of homosexuality, but many more have not and would not want to be. Is there no &#8216;liberal&#8217; theology in Islam? I know that gays are widely perceived to be promiscuous, and promiscuity (gay and straight) is sinful in almost all religions, but must a monagamous gay couple also be condemned?</p>
<p>I have a 95-year-old neighbour here on the UK south coast who had a loving relationship with his &#8216;other half&#8217; (as he calls him) for 72 years until his partner died. Do you say they are both doomed to Hell?</p>
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		<title>By: Rasheed Eldin</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15016</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rasheed Eldin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 13:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15016</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, Syed&#039;s hope for a &quot;cure&quot; will be doomed to fail because it&#039;s supposed to be impossible, despite many (&quot;gays&quot;?) testifying to their own personal success in steering their lives in the direction they wanted. Seems that some personal experiences are to be considered, and others ignored.

The door to faith is wide open, and the door to sin is also there but behind it is Hell. Someone who has same-sex attractions should follow the path of truth and piety, and that way will achieve the best of this life and the Next.

Almighty God continues to have mercy on even the worst of sinners, as manifested in His giving that sinner time to come back to Him, to repent and be enveloped in His Love. This is better than a hedonistic pseudo-theology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, Syed&#8217;s hope for a &#8220;cure&#8221; will be doomed to fail because it&#8217;s supposed to be impossible, despite many (&#8220;gays&#8221;?) testifying to their own personal success in steering their lives in the direction they wanted. Seems that some personal experiences are to be considered, and others ignored.</p>
<p>The door to faith is wide open, and the door to sin is also there but behind it is Hell. Someone who has same-sex attractions should follow the path of truth and piety, and that way will achieve the best of this life and the Next.</p>
<p>Almighty God continues to have mercy on even the worst of sinners, as manifested in His giving that sinner time to come back to Him, to repent and be enveloped in His Love. This is better than a hedonistic pseudo-theology.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gee (author of SHAIKH-DOWN)</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Gee (author of SHAIKH-DOWN)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 11:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last night (May 21) the story moved on with Syed approaching someone who he hopes can &quot;cure&quot; him of homosexuality. There are people (mostly Evangelical Christians in the US) who claim that it&#039;s possible to be &quot;cured&quot;. Gays and psychologists refute this notion. Homosexuality is not a sickness, it&#039;s a natural state to those who have it. It may not be &quot;normal&quot; but it is our natural state.

Fundamentalist Christians quote the Old Testament where homosexuality is condemned as an &quot;abomination&quot;. Jesus is not recorded as having passed a judgment on this issue, but many Christian theologians have found a way to welcome gays into the faith. Is it not possible for a man (or woman) to be gay AND a good Muslim? Must the door to Faith be closed rather than open? 

Incidentally, Tamwar, the geeky brother of Syed, was given a nice line yesterday. He said, &quot;Your family should love you regardless.&quot;

To which I&#039;d like to add that &quot;God should love you regardless.&quot; Or is that not possible?

P.S. I don&#039;t usually watch Soaps, but this storyline has got me hooked! I&#039;ve known many gay (or bisexual) Muslims who struggle with their consciences. It&#039;s just as hard for gays in other faiths.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last night (May 21) the story moved on with Syed approaching someone who he hopes can &#8220;cure&#8221; him of homosexuality. There are people (mostly Evangelical Christians in the US) who claim that it&#8217;s possible to be &#8220;cured&#8221;. Gays and psychologists refute this notion. Homosexuality is not a sickness, it&#8217;s a natural state to those who have it. It may not be &#8220;normal&#8221; but it is our natural state.</p>
<p>Fundamentalist Christians quote the Old Testament where homosexuality is condemned as an &#8220;abomination&#8221;. Jesus is not recorded as having passed a judgment on this issue, but many Christian theologians have found a way to welcome gays into the faith. Is it not possible for a man (or woman) to be gay AND a good Muslim? Must the door to Faith be closed rather than open? </p>
<p>Incidentally, Tamwar, the geeky brother of Syed, was given a nice line yesterday. He said, &#8220;Your family should love you regardless.&#8221;</p>
<p>To which I&#8217;d like to add that &#8220;God should love you regardless.&#8221; Or is that not possible?</p>
<p>P.S. I don&#8217;t usually watch Soaps, but this storyline has got me hooked! I&#8217;ve known many gay (or bisexual) Muslims who struggle with their consciences. It&#8217;s just as hard for gays in other faiths.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gee (author of SHAIKH-DOWN)</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-15003</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Gee (author of SHAIKH-DOWN)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 10:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-15003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With gays persecuted and even tortured and murdered in many Muslim countries (and even in some that aren&#039;t) I&#039;m not sure that there&#039;s a door to open. I wish there were. A gay boyfriend of mine in Qatar was forced by his parents into an arranged marriage; he and his bride did not &quot;live happily ever after&quot;. (This gave me some of the plot of my novel.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With gays persecuted and even tortured and murdered in many Muslim countries (and even in some that aren&#8217;t) I&#8217;m not sure that there&#8217;s a door to open. I wish there were. A gay boyfriend of mine in Qatar was forced by his parents into an arranged marriage; he and his bride did not &#8220;live happily ever after&#8221;. (This gave me some of the plot of my novel.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rasheed Eldin</title>
		<link>http://gaymuslims.org/2009/07/29/eastenders-and-the-troubled-muslim/#comment-14993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rasheed Eldin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 13:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/?p=284#comment-14993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Indeed it is, or to quibble over the portrayal of a Brit-Asian family that clearly doesn&#039;t have much grasp on Islam in the first place, reacting to a deeply immoral son. Cheating is enough of an abomination, even putting aside the homosexual aspect.

But you can call Islam a &quot;fascistic cult of homophobia&quot; or whatever you want, but you&#039;ve just slammed the door of dialogue in your own face.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed it is, or to quibble over the portrayal of a Brit-Asian family that clearly doesn&#8217;t have much grasp on Islam in the first place, reacting to a deeply immoral son. Cheating is enough of an abomination, even putting aside the homosexual aspect.</p>
<p>But you can call Islam a &#8220;fascistic cult of homophobia&#8221; or whatever you want, but you&#8217;ve just slammed the door of dialogue in your own face.</p>
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