Look, I haven’t stated anywhere what you claimed here:
“Do you see the inconsistency in calling the Islamic perspective compassionate for “Gay Muslims” (includes both types), now?”

I have said our perspective (on the issues) is principled and compassionate. Very, very simple, alhamdulillah. Stop trying to force some particular mistake into the words, such as to say that such-and-such people should or should not be treated compassionately. That is not the point and I feel sorry for how much trouble you seem to be experiencing. Good luck and keep reading if you wish, but I won’t waste my time further.

First of all, my intention for having this discussion is not to prove how you’re all wrong and everything that I say is right. It is only to clarify Islamic matters that I feel have been misunderstood. And honestly, if the compassionate perspective wouldn’t have been presented as being principled and Islamic, I would have cared less! It is only because of the word Islamic that I’ve made it my job to stretch the discussion this far.

Second, I don’t see this as a you vs I debate. I view this as which perspectives are better rooted in/supported by the Quran. It has nothing to do with YOU (or even me) which brings me to my third point…

More often than not, I take caution about not making personal remarks. Which is why I don’t like putting up with offensive personal remarks. I didn’t like the way this comment was written…

“I welcome your quest to “dig deeper” but please be sure to do so with a teacher.”

What’s up with the quotation marks around dig deeper? Hmm? My feelings have been hurt. Can I ask for a compassionate response?
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On to more comments…

I wouldn’t say arrogant at all, but a little more self-assured than someone should be when they are clearly new to a subject.

Clearly new? You seem to say that with so much surety. Makes me smile.

You know I’ve been hearing the story of the people of Lut (as) since a tender age which helps me realize the gravity of their sin. So, no I’m definitely not new to the subject. Even as a kid, I most definitely realized that Allah was not compassionate toward homosexuals.

And even if I (or someone else) was new, the newness wouldn’t matter. What would matter is how much of what’s being said is rooted in the Quran. Not how new or old someone is to a field.

What I’m new to, and I openly admit, is the kafir developed definitions, attitudes, and explanations about homosexuality. However my newness to this area is irrelevant to my previous argument about compassion.

—–

The word “gay” does not have such a clear meaning and is not linked to any particular action in the way that adultery is. So the analogy is incorrect.

I understand and agree that in these times, the definition of gay is not clear cut as it could include the SSA attracted individuals as well as the actual homosexuals. But I don’t think the rest of your claim is necessarily valid as it is possible for gay-ness to be linked with homosexual acts.

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So, I’ve read about your definition of gay Muslims on this article…
http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/26/gay-muslim-gay-muslim/

I’d still like to ask as I’m confused, who exactly are you referring to in your title when you say ‘Gay’ Muslims?

If I read the unique perspective section, I sense that you are talking about SSA sufferers and outright homosexuals who are distorting the religion.

BUT when I consider the quotations around the word gay, in light of your article I feel that you are more referring to the outright homosexuals (as you use the word gay with quotation marks, for self-identifying homos). This bring me to my next point–

In your article you acknowledge that self identifying “gays” can be so either because of ignorance or outright rebellion. Since according to you, there are these two types of ppl in this category (of “gay Muslims”, also the title of your blog), I cannot for once see how the latter is worthy of ANY compassion! Do you see the inconsistency in calling the Islamic perspective compassionate for “Gay Muslims” (includes both types), now?

PS: In the title, shouldn’t the word gay have double quotations instead of single? That’s how its written in other places on the blog.

I haven’t read your article,

I sensed that. You should read it.

..and have no particular wish to prove anything to you regarding my ‘qualifications’.

Wow! I’m surprised you interpreted the question in such a way. I asked your qualifications because I have seen that you reference research articles in your posts. So I just wondered.

Well, your comments are a personal attack on all Muslims with same-sex attractions as you group them up as a devilish bunch.

I never did.

I haven’t been the least convinced that compassion is anything inappropriate, especially when explained as I did for you above. None of that is contradicated by the verses you quoted, as Lut (as) was full of compassion in that he called his people to the truth. Compassion does not mean accepting evil, not at all.

In your last paragraph in comment #17 you have pointed out the need for balance, and I agree with that obvious point. In da’wah (as in personal faith) we always need to balance hope with fear. So yes, compassion is not the only thing, but your obsession with removing the word is quite troubling.

I haven’t read your article, and have no particular wish to prove anything to you regarding my ‘qualifications’. If I make a fatwa then you can ask.

In the verses about “adulterers”, yes they have been identified according to their actions, that is true. The word “gay” does not have such a clear meaning and is not linked to any particular action in the way that adultery is. So the analogy is incorrect. See this article:
http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/26/gay-muslim-gay-muslim/

I will respond to this later, inshaAllah.

Point taken about the lack of quote marks in the title, but that is a special case and not related to your whole argument about compassion. I will add quote marks to reflect my established practice throughout this blog. Thank you for pointing it out. As for the URL, I explained its use on the “About” page.

I never claimed that it was related to the compassion argument. I pointed out the missing quotation marks to point out the contradiction between words and actions.

I would invite you to read further with some humility if you genuinely wish to learn and be of help to others. Here’s a guide for where to start:
http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/07/14/some-highlights-so-far/

Uh…Thanks but no thanks. I will dig deeper in the Quran and the Hadith with a lot of humility before considering the suggested articles. This way I will be able to sharply differentiate between facts and mere opinions and be in a better position to help people.

Btw…you said “…read further with some humility…” Are you implying that I have been arrogant? If so, then what is your evidence?

Finally, you seem to have totally dismissed the argument I’d built for removing compassion from the tagline using Quranic verses. And you never answered my question about whether or not you had read the article on the nononsense blog. So, in return I have another question for you…what are your educational/professional qualifications?

I hope you will respond to the one concern and two questions.

Yes, that seems to be your expertise

As for valid criticism, you simply dismissed them all by saying that I was personally attacking you. Well, your comments are a personal attack on all Muslims with same-sex attractions as you group them up as a devilish bunch.

Guilty but un-admitting. Now, I officially dismiss your comments.

Point taken about the lack of quote marks in the title, but that is a special case and not related to your whole argument about compassion. I will add quote marks to reflect my established practice throughout this blog. Thank you for pointing it out. As for the URL, I explained its use on the “About” page.

I would invite you to read further with some humility if you genuinely wish to learn and be of help to others. Here’s a guide for where to start:
http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/07/14/some-highlights-so-far/

It is not a part of the principled Islamic perspective.

Here, I meant to say…it is not representative of the overall Islamic perspective.

Yes, that seems to be your expertise

As for valid criticism, you simply dismissed them all by saying that I was personally attacking you. Well, your comments are a personal attack on all Muslims with same-sex attractions as you group them up as a devilish bunch.