Comments on: The Dangers of Denial http://gaymuslims.org/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/ Principled, compassionate Islamic perspective Fri, 03 Feb 2012 06:47:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Check your attitude « Eye on ‘Gay Muslims’ http://gaymuslims.org/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-14706 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:55:22 +0000 https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-14706 [...] understand why, see The Dangers of Denial. NB: I changed the gloss in the square brackets because the author’s version (”to be [...]

]]> By: Rasheed Eldin http://gaymuslims.org/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-4168 Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:22:03 +0000 https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-4168 Just came across this in-depth article by Sheikh Nuh Keller, which I haven’t read yet but thought must be relevant:

“Iman, Kufr and Takfir”
http://shadhilitariqa.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=20

]]> By: Rasheed Eldin http://gaymuslims.org/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-2126 Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:14:01 +0000 https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-2126 Imam at-Tahawi stated in his famous text of the Creed (al-’Aqeedah at-Tahawiyyah):
Wa laa nukaffiru ahadan min ahlil-qiblati bi-dhanbin maa lam yastahillahu
“We do not consider any of the people of the Qiblah [i.e. who pray like us towards Makkah] to be an unbeliever because of a sin [he commits], as long as he does not consider it permitted.”

]]> By: Yousef http://gaymuslims.org/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-367 Mon, 22 May 2006 18:21:47 +0000 https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-367 Point taken. But, interesting you should mention the issue of prayer, how many times have we prayed behind whoever was just at the mosque or at the prayer room etc. My point is that it’s practically impossible to do such a thing “here and now”. I do, however, believe that the scholars need to refute the statements that such people are making against islam and the “label” should only come when such people are actively leading others astray…and even then it’s a very difficult task.
Again,
Allahu a’lam

]]> By: Rasheed Eldin http://gaymuslims.org/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-366 Mon, 22 May 2006 18:08:34 +0000 https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-366 You're right, this is not about sticking labels on people – but it's about knowing the realities of the situation. There are Muslims who say: "You can be gay or Muslim but not both", i.e. that someone who "is gay" cannot be considered a Muslim.

The reality is more complex, as we would need to know what it means to "be gay" in that context:
- If it's about having same-sex attractions, then that's not even sinful in itself.
- If it's about practising homosexual acts, then the one who does it is a major sinner but not necessarily out of Islam.
- If it's about identifying as belonging to that "orientation", then this could be a less serious or more serious matter, and here I think the scholars need to clarify.

We are not in the business of easy-takfeer, but we need to be clear on the limits this religion sets for mankind.

I don't quite agree that people can only be described as fasiq or kafir within a system of Islamic governance: surely knowledgable people can do such, but as you said, only when necessary? I think it has some ramifications in Islamic life: for example, you would not pray behind a kafir, would you? It would also be unseemly to ask a fasiq to lead you in prayer.

]]> By: Yousef http://gaymuslims.org/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-365 Mon, 22 May 2006 17:57:57 +0000 https://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/05/22/the-dangers-of-denial/#comment-365 Salam,
Thanks for the interesting piece, inshallah people will read it carefully and pay attention to what is being said. As I understand it, this is for us to ponder upon in order to rectify our own selves in order not to fall into these traps and, hence, not fall into these categories.

I also wanted to stress one thing that you mentioned about not labeling others. These categories that you mentioned can only, wallahu alam (God knows best), be applied in an Islamic system context and WHEN NEEDED. It is, most definitely, not a charecteristic of a Muslim to go around and label people this and that but there are situations when living under an Islamic system when this would be requied (albeit rare situations). The example I wanted to give here was that the Prophet Mohammad Peace be upon him, was told who the munafiqeen (hypocrites) were amongst the Muslims but he refused to explicitly point them out to others. The Muslims woud only find out about them AFTER they die as the Prophet PBUH would not attend that munafiq’s funeral (as God has forbidden him to do so).
Allahu alam
God knows best

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