Comments on: The Stripy Charlatan http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/ Principled, compassionate Islamic perspective Tue, 07 Sep 2010 01:12:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Son of a Prince http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-15050 Son of a Prince Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:47:33 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-15050 There is a global consensus among the Muslims scholars of the "Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaah", (The people of the Qur'an and Sunnah) both past and present, that those who subscribe to, or commit, the actions of the "People of Sodom and Gommorrah", The very first people in history who were mentioned as performing homosexual behaviors, who were also referred to as "Qawmi Luut" (the People of the Prophet Lot) (AS), are flagrant and blatant sinners. It is an unfortunate modern (and Western) phenomena, that some clinically and morally depraved Muslims are promoting this filthy and socially subversive lifestyle, and using the name of the one chapters of the Sacred Scripture of the Qur'an. No one would be that criminally blatant, but those who have entered a pact with the Shayaateen and Iblees himself (na oodhu billah). If they claim to be Muslims, we must have authoritative evidence to call them non-Muslims, but their proclamation and promotion of that lifestyle, is an act of disbelief and rebellion, similiar to those who openly deal drugs, engage in organized crimes, or those who traffick in pornography, or engage in pedophelia. Here in the Western societies, these self-proclaimed deviants have the legal right to say and do whatever they want, and we fellow Americans (or citizens of any other Western society) are obliged to tolerate them, and respect their civil rights to say whatever they want. Similiarly, we have the same rights to abhor them, and to classify them as they are: Moral deviants who contribute towards social subversion and the introduction of the most lethal diseases known to mankind, which were never known to humans, and diseases which there is that we now know are forensically connected to the homosexual lifestyle. Therefore, it is a moral obligation and right of every God-fearing person, whether Muslim, Jew, or Christian, to exercise their moral and religious right to condemn and oppose the people of this criminal and socially subversive behavior. It is as dangerous as a contagious cancer, and a fire sweeping through our society, which threatens the very well-being of our future generation There is a global consensus among the Muslims scholars of the “Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaah”, (The people of the Qur’an and Sunnah) both past and present, that those who subscribe to, or commit, the actions of the “People of Sodom and Gommorrah”,
The very first people in history who were mentioned as performing homosexual behaviors, who were also referred to as “Qawmi Luut” (the People of the Prophet Lot) (AS), are flagrant and blatant sinners.

It is an unfortunate modern (and Western) phenomena, that some clinically and morally
depraved Muslims are promoting this filthy and
socially subversive lifestyle, and using the name of the one chapters of the Sacred Scripture of the Qur’an. No one would be that criminally blatant, but those who have entered a pact with the Shayaateen
and Iblees himself (na oodhu billah).

If they claim to be Muslims, we must have authoritative evidence to call them non-Muslims, but their proclamation and promotion of that lifestyle, is an act of disbelief and rebellion, similiar to those who openly deal drugs, engage in organized crimes, or those who traffick in pornography, or engage in pedophelia. Here in the Western societies, these self-proclaimed deviants have the legal right to say and do whatever they want, and we fellow Americans (or citizens of any other Western society) are obliged to tolerate them, and respect their civil rights to say whatever they want.

Similiarly, we have the same rights to abhor them, and to classify them as they are: Moral deviants who contribute towards social subversion and the introduction of the most lethal diseases known to mankind, which were never known to humans, and diseases which there is that we now know are forensically connected to the homosexual lifestyle.

Therefore, it is a moral obligation and right of every God-fearing person, whether Muslim, Jew, or Christian, to exercise their moral and religious right to condemn
and oppose the people of this criminal and socially subversive behavior. It is as dangerous as a contagious cancer, and a fire sweeping through our society, which threatens the very well-being of our future generation

]]> By: Rasheed Eldin http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-14360 Rasheed Eldin Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:50:58 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-14360 What do you think, Roscoe? What do you think, Roscoe?

]]> By: Roscoe http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-14356 Roscoe Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:04:26 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-14356 queer muslim is that an oxymoron queer muslim is that an oxymoron

]]> By: Rasheed Eldin http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-2424 Rasheed Eldin Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:10:24 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-2424 Yusuf, you and others have identified that sometimes we use taunting tones with the leaders of this Queer Muslim Movement, and that is something we feel is within the bounds of decency. I certainly don't think it's comparable to "lying through [the] back teeth". I would certainly correct something if it were false, or if we used a fallacious argument such as an ad hominem. That being said, there is a serious reason why we don't like calling them by their assumed name, and Taleb has explained that. Even so, we do sometimes refer to them as Al-Fatiha. The other is our nickname for them. Finally though, we don't hold all gay Muslims in contempt, even those who are engaging in sins, even open ones. There is a difference between those who are misled and those doing the misleading. Thanks and take care. Yusuf, you and others have identified that sometimes we use taunting tones with the leaders of this Queer Muslim Movement, and that is something we feel is within the bounds of decency. I certainly don’t think it’s comparable to “lying through [the] back teeth”. I would certainly correct something if it were false, or if we used a fallacious argument such as an ad hominem.

That being said, there is a serious reason why we don’t like calling them by their assumed name, and Taleb has explained that. Even so, we do sometimes refer to them as Al-Fatiha. The other is our nickname for them.

Finally though, we don’t hold all gay Muslims in contempt, even those who are engaging in sins, even open ones. There is a difference between those who are misled and those doing the misleading.

Thanks and take care.

]]> By: Taleb Haqq http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-2420 Taleb Haqq Sun, 10 Dec 2006 06:56:01 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-2420 Salam, AlFahisha is doing just that, it is advocating exactly what the Qur'an states is a Fahisha. AlFatiha, on the other hand, is the name of a chapter in the Qur'an. Is it befitting, in your opinion, for a group that is advocating "fawahish" to be named by a chapter in the Qur'an...the word of Allah? Salam,
AlFahisha is doing just that, it is advocating exactly what the Qur’an states is a Fahisha. AlFatiha, on the other hand, is the name of a chapter in the Qur’an. Is it befitting, in your opinion, for a group that is advocating “fawahish” to be named by a chapter in the Qur’an…the word of Allah?

]]> By: Yusuf http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-2416 Yusuf Sun, 10 Dec 2006 01:59:51 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-2416 Salaam, Why refer to Al-Fatiha as Al-Fahisha? I realise the meaning of both words, but it's hardly in the spirit of fair play, respectable debate and etiquette, is it? Mr Abdullah might be lying through his back teeth, but does that make it Ok for you to do so as well? It seems that you're unlikely to change your mind, if you hold gay muslims in so much contempt that you cannot address their group by their given name, and so, the purpose of the debate is therefore lost. Salaam,

Why refer to Al-Fatiha as Al-Fahisha? I realise the meaning of both words, but it’s hardly in the spirit of fair play, respectable debate and etiquette, is it?

Mr Abdullah might be lying through his back teeth, but does that make it Ok for you to do so as well?

It seems that you’re unlikely to change your mind, if you hold gay muslims in so much contempt that you cannot address their group by their given name, and so, the purpose of the debate is therefore lost.

]]> By: Rasheed Eldin http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-297 Rasheed Eldin Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:48:56 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-297 Thanks for bringing this article to our attention. I wonder if Daayiee would claim that these comments were in fact made by someone other than Sh. Alalwani. By the way, I interpret "If they want to be gay" as meaning: "If they want to live a homosexual lifestyle", which would include sinful acts and behaviours. I am sure that he would not condemn someone for what they feel inside, so long as they maintain sincerity before God and abstain from sins. It's important to emphasise this, in case people who are confused about what to do about sexual feelings get the idea that they "must be far from Islamic religion and the Muslim community". No, actually our community has to bring them close and help them understand their feelings in the light of religion. Note that the Sheikh's comments were in the context of a Gay Pride parade, not in response to a sensible question put to him. Thanks for bringing this article to our attention. I wonder if Daayiee would claim that these comments were in fact made by someone other than Sh. Alalwani.

By the way, I interpret “If they want to be gay” as meaning: “If they want to live a homosexual lifestyle”, which would include sinful acts and behaviours. I am sure that he would not condemn someone for what they feel inside, so long as they maintain sincerity before God and abstain from sins.

It’s important to emphasise this, in case people who are confused about what to do about sexual feelings get the idea that they “must be far from Islamic religion and the Muslim community”. No, actually our community has to bring them close and help them understand their feelings in the light of religion.

Note that the Sheikh’s comments were in the context of a Gay Pride parade, not in response to a sensible question put to him.

]]> By: Food for Thought http://gaymuslims.org/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-296 Food for Thought Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:57:56 +0000 http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/01/23/the-stripy-charlatan/#comment-296 Most religious leaders and scholars agree that Islam holds no place for homosexuality, condemning it as a grievous sin that under some Islamic governments is punishable by death. "There is no room to be Muslim and gay at the same time," said Dr. Taha Jabir Al Alwani, president of the Graduate School of Islamic and Social Sciences in Leesburg, Virginia. "If they want to be gay, they must be far from Islamic religion and the Muslim community. If they want to be Muslims, they should treat themselves and become clean from this kind of sin. There can be no compromise in this." Islam is not alone in this prohibition, which also holds for Catholics, Mormons and several Protestant denominations. But while Western societies offer a range of spiritual alternatives for gay Christians, Jews and others who seek to maintain some form of religious faith, Islam has traditionally closed the door to even the notion of homosexuality. "If gays want to say that Islam discriminates, that is fine. We discriminate, and we are proud of this. And there is no Muslim group in the world that does not have the same position on this sin," Al Alwani said. Most religious leaders and scholars agree that Islam holds no place for homosexuality, condemning it as a grievous sin that under some Islamic governments is punishable by death. “There is no room to be Muslim and gay at the same time,” said Dr. Taha Jabir Al Alwani, president of the Graduate School of Islamic and Social Sciences in Leesburg, Virginia.

“If they want to be gay, they must be far from Islamic religion and the Muslim community. If they want to be Muslims, they should treat themselves and become clean from this kind of sin. There can be no compromise in this.” Islam is not alone in this prohibition, which also holds for Catholics, Mormons and several Protestant denominations.

But while Western societies offer a range of spiritual alternatives for gay Christians, Jews and others who seek to maintain some form of religious faith, Islam has traditionally closed the door to even the notion of homosexuality. “If gays want to say that Islam discriminates, that is fine. We discriminate, and we are proud of this. And there is no Muslim group in the world that does not have the same position on this sin,” Al Alwani said.

]]>